IWD Interview Special: Jen Romano and the female experience of Burnout
Happy International Women’s Day! I recently spoke to Accenture Managing Director, Jen Romano to discuss Burnout and specifically women’s experience of Burnout. I’m delighted to share our interview below. Read on to hear her valuable insights into how “you can’t outwork Burnout”, “do interesting stuff” and “let go” can help us recognise and recover from Burnout.
This discussion represents our personal views and we are not speaking on behalf of Accenture.
Have you noticed there’s a difference in the way men and women experience Burnout?
There’s a difference but we don’t necessarily fully understand that yet. That said, there are some very general patterns that can be indicators: men’s Burnout often expresses as “get stuff done” whereas women tend to take on more of the emotional load and care taking. This is a broad generalisation as everyone is different and the spectrum is very wide but yes, we do see Burnout express itself differently between men and women. Also, sometimes women find it harder to identify the symptoms specifically as Burnout and therefore it can go undetected for longer.
Because people don’t fit perfectly into any pattern, the best way to get to know how a person is experiencing Burnout is to get to know them individually; find out how they like working and what excites them. Get to know your team.
This is especially true in Consulting because our product is our people. Making conversations about Burnout normal and having conscious awareness of how it can affect our behaviour helps us retain the best talent and make our teams successful. We all have times when we need to go above and beyond to get a deliverable out the door, but any organisation needs to recognise how to then flex to rebalance that once we can.
Regardless of whether you’re a man or a woman though, the first step in Burnout recovery is to step back and understand why you’re burning out.
Is there more women can do to support each other in the workplace?
In any company there’ll be networks and networks of networks. One of the best ways we can help people is to recognize them as an individual and then connect them with like-minded people. The range of Burnout experience is huge so connecting people with others in a similar boat will help.
We need to normalise discussions of “life lines” i.e. how people have really made their careers and not just the plain sailing. Make it acceptable for people to talk about the authentic journeys and not just the happy path. And make it acceptable for people to ask about this too.
When we do that, we can break down the unconscious bias that pervades a lot of corporate culture around long hours. It used to be that long hours and facetime equals earning your stripes but that’s very old school. If we’re to really beat the Burnout we have to stop this. Quality work beats quantity every time. Work smart not lots.
Can you share some of your own experience of Burnout?
I’ve had three different burnouts for three different reasons. Each time it had to be fixed in three different ways.
One was pure overwork and not able to handle the amount of pressure. When I arrived at work I used to sit in the car and have to really convince myself to go in. Some of this stemmed from the fact that I didn’t know how to fix some of the actual project problems. So, I tried to work harder and harder but was getting diminishing returns.
What I learnt from this is you really can’t outwork burnout. You have to step back and re-evaluate. I took an eight-month break and saw the world. I did some super cool things like travelling in South East Asia and being a scuba diving teacher in Bali. This was really fun. For a while. What I realised is that learning is a motivator for me. As soon as the learning is done, the fun has gone.
I finished travelling in Australia and ended up having an accidental job interview! I met a friend of mine and we got chatting about work and what interests me and then I ended up having an interview with his boss! It was really useful in helping me re-centre on what interests me and what I find mentally stimulating. Despite the glorious weather it confirmed for me that Accenture is my home, so I came back to New York.
This also taught me that no one knows where your 100% is until you articulate it. If you try to keep going at 100%, eventually 100% becomes the norm and so 110% is expected of you. Then that becomes the norm and so on until it spirals, and it will end in Burnout one day. As fast as you empty your bucket it’ll fill up again; just because you’re emptying the bucket fast doesn’t mean it’ll stay empty. Instead, ride the ebbs and flows; if it’s a quiet time in the project that’s ok: log off early / on time. Read a book. Go on a hike. Recharge because the time to stretch will come again.
My second Burnout was ironically on the best managed project I’ve ever been on! For the first seven years in Accenture, I never worked a day in the New York office. When you’re travelling a lot, you can find you have no life at all. Being on an out of town project and spending a lot of time by yourself in a random hotel can wear you down after a while. In fact, I was so unhappy I thought about quitting.
Fortunately, I had a really good mentor who helped me realise it was the situation not the job that was the problem. People are sometimes quick to leap to the conclusion that their job is the problem when it’s really the situation. If you change job but not the situation then you’ll eventually burn out again. No one can work this out for you, you have to self-identify but it’s very powerful when you do.
My third one was caused by being busy but bored. This was actually the hardest Burnout to identify the cause. I was the most senior person in my project, I was experienced so I knew my stuff, I was really busy. What was the problem? Why didn’t it feel right? Ultimately, I was bored. I was missing “do interesting stuff” and that was something really important I learnt from this Burnout. I’m motivated by “doing interesting stuff” and if that box is ticked, working hours itself I can put to one side.
It was a journey to come to that understanding though. Literally. I did a solo hike in Sierra Nevada and asked myself “what do I wish work was like”? And as I thought this through, it came to me.
At each Burnout I’ve taken time out to re-centre and think about “what do you want to do and what power do you have to change it?” I really think your career level doesn’t matter: I was at different levels each time I burnt out. That also taught me to be open and talk about it.
To try and prevent this happening in my team, I’m a big fan of upward feedback. This is about encouraging your team to tell you things like “I’ll do better at my job if you could…” or “you get the best out of me when you…” You all learn something: it helps you articulate why your project matters, and it helps give people purpose because they understand the value. I want to help people buy into the vision.
This is why I allow discussions about priority and urgency to be acceptable and transparent. Asking for help is the most powerful thing you can do both with your day-to-day work and if you’re struggling. Take immediate checkpoints: “I’m thinking of doing it like this, does that work for you?” I’d rather that than the team spin in circles until they’re burnt out.
Having experienced Burnout yourself, what’s the one bit of advice you wish you’d known before?
Oh this is a hard one because the answer is both “all” and “but I wouldn’t have understood it enough to listen to it at the time”.
Hmm I think above all: you can’t outwork burnout. Doing less stuff well is better than doing a lot of stuff averagely. Do more work does not equal more results. Doing a few quality things is better than doing lots of average things.
This kind of brings us full circle because it ties into the female experience of Burnout: letting go of control can be especially hard for women. You have to stop trying to take care of everything and take a step back. Trust the people that work for you and if you don’t, ask why not. Nurture them to take over parts of your job.
When you understand your role and where you add value, it’s perfectly ok to let go of the guilt.
A big thank you to Jen for such a valuable discussion; I’ve personally benefited from Jen’s advice both during my Burnout and in this interview. I hope you’ve also been Today Years Old when you’ve learnt something too. You can read more like this here or watch videos on the new YouTube channel.
